Interview Transcript (Edited for Readability)

Editor's Note: The following transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Minor grammatical corrections, filler words, and repeated phrases have been removed while preserving the meaning and intent of the conversation.

Welcome to Oklahoma Donkey Dairy

Cindy Paul:

Hi, everyone! I'm Cindy Paul, Executive Director of Truth in Health.

Today we're visiting one of Oklahoma's most unique farms—Oklahoma Donkey Dairy.

When most people hear the words donkey milk, they're surprised. But this story is about much more than milk. It's about helping children, exploring nutrition, and learning how one family's determination led them down an unexpected path.

Today we'll see how the donkeys are cared for, how the milk is produced, and hear the remarkable story behind this family farm.

Let's head inside and meet Saundra Traywick.

Meeting the Donkeys

(The team tours the farm before sitting down for the interview.)

Saundra Traywick:

Welcome! They aren't paying attention to us—they're wondering where the food is.

Paige Grellner:

They really are beautiful.

Saundra:

Come on down. Just try not to get drenched.

Paige:

Are they protective?

Saundra:

No, not at all.

More Than a Story About Donkey Milk

Chip Paul:

Saundra, thank you for welcoming us to your beautiful farm.

Today we want to talk about much more than donkey milk.

We want to learn about your family's journey, how all of this began, what you've discovered along the way, and some of the health discussions surrounding donkey milk.

Paige is going to start at the beginning of your story, and I'll jump in throughout the conversation with some of the science.

Where It All Began

Paige Grellner:

Before we sat down, your daughter gave us a wonderful tour and introduced us to the donkeys.

There's obviously a much bigger story here.

Let's go back to the beginning.

Tell us about your daughter.

When Everything Changed

Saundra Traywick:

My daughter is 18 now and getting ready to leave for college. She's doing wonderfully today.

But when she was six years old, everything changed almost overnight.

She had been healthy and developing normally. Then suddenly she developed severe OCD, anxiety, emotional outbursts, separation anxiety, food aversions, hallucinations, and other neurological symptoms.

It was as though someone had flipped a switch.

At first, I thought she might have a brain tumor because the change was so dramatic.

She could barely eat.

She could barely drink.

Everything became contaminated in her mind.

Imagine trying to explain that coming from a six-year-old child.

I spent every spare minute researching because I knew something serious was happening.

Finding a Diagnosis

Saundra:

During my research, I found references to autoimmune conditions causing neurological symptoms, but I couldn't find a clear diagnosis.

We were incredibly fortunate to get in with a doctor in Tulsa.

He didn't even need to examine her.

I simply listed everything that had happened.

He looked at me and said,

"I could keep you as my best patient for the next twelve years...or I can tell you she has PANDAS."

That diagnosis changed everything.

PANDAS stands for Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococcal infections.

There is also PANS, but my daughter fit the classic PANDAS presentation.

The surprising part was that she actually had strep throat and we didn't know it.

She never developed a fever.

She didn't complain about her throat.

The only clue was unusually bad breath, which I later learned can sometimes accompany strep infections.

A Mother's Expectations

Saundra:

I considered myself one of the "crunchy moms."

I ground my own wheat flour.

We avoided processed foods.

I tried to do everything right.

Like many parents, I thought if we made healthy choices, we'd avoid something like this happening.

So when my daughter became sick, it was devastating.

"Just Give Her Antibiotics"

Saundra:

The recommendation seemed simple.

"Put her on antibiotics and she'll be fine."

Unfortunately, it wasn't that simple.

Our pediatrician had never even heard of PANDAS.

We were literally searching for information together during the appointment.

At that time, many doctors weren't familiar with the condition, and some questioned whether it even existed.

So everyone was learning.

The antibiotics cleared the active strep infection.

But instead of returning to normal, new symptoms appeared.

She developed a constant blinking tic.

She began ending nearly every sentence with the word "maybe."

She would say:

"I touched the pillow...maybe."

"I touched my hair...maybe."

"I said hello...maybe."

She couldn't finish a sentence without questioning whether it was true.

Looking back, I understand that this was part of the OCD.

Trying Everything

Paige:

Did the antibiotics help at all?

Saundra:

They treated the strep.

We absolutely wanted to eliminate the infection.

We even extended the antibiotics beyond the initial prescription because of everything we were learning.

But the neurological symptoms continued.

When I called our pediatrician again, I explained everything that was happening.

He said something I'll never forget.

"I don't know what to do...but I'll pray for you."

Looking back, I appreciate his honesty.

He didn't pretend to have all the answers.

Searching for More Answers

Saundra:

I contacted the National Institute of Mental Health.

They had information about PANDAS, so I asked what they recommended.

They told me their best recommendation at the time was long-term antibiotics until my daughter was eighteen or twenty-one years old.

Another option was IVIG infusions.

Neither felt like the right path for our family.

I had already been researching gut health and nutrition, and I couldn't imagine keeping my daughter on antibiotics for more than a decade.

So I prayed.

I researched.

And I decided that if experts were still trying to understand this condition, then I was going to keep learning too.

Instead of trying one thing at a time, I carefully documented everything.

If something didn't seem helpful, we'd remove it.

I had one overwhelming fear.

I didn't want to forget who my daughter had been before she became sick.

Discovering Camel Milk

Saundra:

Eventually I began reading about autism.

I noticed there seemed to be some overlap in symptoms, and I wondered what other families were trying.

That's when I first learned about camel milk.

We had already tried raw cow milk, raw goat milk, and colostrum.

Camel milk seemed to help, but it wasn't the complete answer.

The challenge was finding a consistent source.

At one point I actually thought,

"Maybe we should buy camels."

A Visit to the Camel Farm

We visited a camel farm here in Oklahoma.

Before long, I realized camels were much larger—and much more intimidating—than I expected.

The owners assured us everything would be fine.

Then one of the camels reached down and grabbed my daughter's head with its mouth.

The farmer yelled,

"Get her! It'll crush her skull!"

I pulled her free, and in that moment I knew.

I was not going to be milking camels.

END OF PART 1

Discovering Donkey Milk

Saundra Traywick:

After visiting the camel farm, I called the naturopath I had been working with.

I asked, "Is there something else in the camel family that's smaller and easier to manage? Maybe an alpaca?"

She laughed and said,

"Try donkey milk. Some children actually do better with donkey milk."

At that point, I had never even considered it.

We obtained some donkey milk, and because I didn't know what I was doing, I simply substituted the same amount we had been giving our daughter in camel milk.

Then we waited.

A Moment Our Family Will Never Forget

Saundra:

Within about thirty minutes, something happened I'll never forget.

My daughter looked at my husband and said,

"I love you, Daddy."

It was the first time she had said those words since she became sick.

It caught us completely off guard.

A little later, she called my parents and told them,

"I love you, Grandma."

My mom immediately started crying.

She asked,

"What did you do?"

I simply answered,

"I gave her some donkey milk."

That was really the beginning of this entire journey.

A Parent Will Do Anything

Saundra:

People often tell us how amazing it is that we started a donkey dairy.

Honestly, it doesn't feel amazing to us.

It's simply what parents do.

When your child is hurting, you'll do whatever you can to help.

If we'd had to milk elephants, we probably would have figured that out too.

Understanding What Was Happening

Chip Paul:

PANDAS is associated with inflammation affecting the basal ganglia in the brain.

Something that happened very quickly after your daughter drank the donkey milk clearly caught your attention.

Researchers are still trying to understand exactly why these responses occur, but stories like yours certainly raise interesting questions.

One area that has interested scientists is the relationship between nutrition, the gut microbiome, and immune function.

Saundra's Observations

Saundra:

One researcher told me he wanted to study how donkey milk affected the gut microbiome.

I explained something we'd observed.

Not just with our daughter, but with other families as well.

Many parents told us they noticed changes within thirty or forty minutes after giving a serving.

He said,

"That's impossible."

I asked him,

"How long does it take for a shot of vodka to affect your brain?"

He laughed.

Then he said,

"Well...that means something is crossing the blood-brain barrier."

I don't pretend to know exactly how it works.

I only know what our family experienced.

The Gut Microbiome Discussion

Chip:

The gut microbiome is fascinating.

Researchers studying autism have noticed that many individuals appear to have very stable microbial communities that don't easily change, even after significant interventions.

That suggests the microbiome may play a much larger role in overall health than we once understood.

The relationship between nutrition, immune signaling, and the microbiome is still an active area of research.

Experiences like yours encourage scientists to keep asking questions.

Why Researchers Study Donkey Milk

Chip:

Donkey milk has a unique nutritional profile.

Researchers have explored several naturally occurring components, including:

• Lysozyme
• Lactoferrin
• Whey proteins
• Immunoglobulins
• Exosomes

Each of these continues to be studied for its biological role.

Again, the science is still developing, but it makes for a fascinating discussion.

Saundra's Research Journey

Saundra:

Over the years I've spent a tremendous amount of time reading research.

One thing I kept coming across was how high donkey milk is in lysozyme.

It's naturally much higher than many other types of milk.

We also learned about lactoferrin and the different immunoglobulins.

Those were all things I had never even heard of before my daughter's illness.

Now I find myself reading scientific papers that I never imagined I'd understand.

Chip Explains the Science

Chip:

One of the things that interests me most is that donkey milk is naturally rich in whey proteins.

That's very different from cow's milk.

It's also relatively low in fat and contains a protein profile that's closer to human milk than many other dairy sources.

Again, researchers are still learning how these components interact with the immune system, the gut, and overall health.

There's still a great deal we don't know.

Learning Along the Way

Saundra:

Every year we continue learning.

I'm not interested in making claims.

I'm interested in understanding.

If researchers discover something new, I want to know about it.

If another family shares their experience, I want to hear it.

That's really what this journey has become.

Learning.

Helping.

Continuing to ask questions.

Building Oklahoma Donkey Dairy

Paige Grellner:

At what point did you realize this wasn't just about helping your own family anymore?

Saundra:

Pretty quickly.

Families started reaching out.

Some had children with challenges similar to ours.

Others were simply curious.

Then we realized something.

If we couldn't even find donkey milk ourselves, how were other families ever going to learn about it?

That's when we decided to build Oklahoma Donkey Dairy.

Preserving a Rare American Breed

Saundra:

We chose American Mammoth Jackstock donkeys.

They're a critically endangered breed with a remarkable history.

Their lineage traces back to donkeys imported during George Washington's presidency to help establish America's mule breeding program.

We wanted to preserve that history while building something meaningful for future generations.

Learning to Milk Donkeys

Saundra:

None of us had ever milked anything before.

The donkeys had never been milked either.

So we learned together.

There was definitely a learning curve.

My husband has been kicked.

We've all been stepped on.

That's just part of farming.

But they're incredibly gentle animals.

Most of our herd has been raised right here on this farm from birth.

That relationship makes a tremendous difference.

END OF PART 2